Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 2832 Location: Tacoma, WA USA
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: Anti-Islam Film Released on the Internet Causes Controversy
TheRavenSeldon tried to bring this film up on another forum and was denied the ability to talk about this film. I have NOT watched it yet, I am going to after I post this.
An anti-Islam film by Dutch right-wing legislator Geert Wilders, depicting Islam as a ticking time bomb that endangered the West, offended several Islamic and Arab leaders, who considered it insulting to religion.
Big protests, involving more than 15,000 people, took place in Afghanistan even before the 15-minute film was released.
The film, titled “Fitna” or ordeal in Arabic, was first posted late Thursday on Wilder’s Freedom Party website, but, as the site crashed due to heavy traffic, it soon appeared on the LiveLeak website, and then on YouTube and DailyMotion and several other shared-video sites.
LiveLeak took down the video, shortly after it had been posted, saying that its staff had received worrying threats, and Muslims thanked the site for promoting tolerance on the Internet.
The controversial film is marked as mature content, containing graphic images such as beheadings, violence against women in Islam and terrorist attacks. The scenes are separated by Koran verses, which promote violence against believers from other religions. Wilders believes that Muslim holy book causes Muslims to have this intolerant attitude against Christians and Jews, who are called “apes and pigs” in “Fitna” by a young Muslim girl.
Amsterdam police expected riots from Dutch Muslim, so they carefully watched the Muslim neighborhoods in Amsterdam, but no violence was initiated. Wilders even congratulated the Muslims in Netherlands for reacting calmly.
"They were all disgusted by the film, but so far there isn't a big explosion," said police spokesman Arnold Aben, according to the Los Angeles Times. "In fact, it's quieter than usual here today. Sort of like a holiday."
Wilders said on Friday he was happy his film had not caused violent reactions. He said he had only wanted to warn Europe about the danger represented by the Islamic terrorism. It was a film that advertised freedom, he insisted.
However, Iran, Pakistan and Indonesia officially rejected and condemned the film. Iran had urged the Netherlands and the European Union to remove the film from the Internet.
Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said in a statement that he disapproved of Wilders’ idea. He said he regretted that the vast majority of Muslim, who are against violence, were offended by the release of the film.
And here is the LiveLeak version:
On the LiveLeak site itself, it shows a different video than this--this appears to be showing the real thing. On their site, it shows this:
If these both go away, I'll find a way to get another version up. Right now I'm posting this because I believe in freedom of speech. Now I'm going to go watch it and I'll have a reply about how I feel about it. _________________ Meow.
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 2832 Location: Tacoma, WA USA
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject:
This was a very disturbing film.
The jump from muslims in islamic countries having to follow Sharia law wanting Islam to take over the world violently to people who escape those countries who have a more peacful version of Islam wanting to do the same thing is a mighty jump indeed. Is it possible--I guess it's possible, but highly unlikely.
The thing we need to be vigilant about is keeping our freedoms, our ability to be able to state things against Islam if we choose. I have the freedom to speak against any other religion. If we start giving in, then the things in this film could actually become true.
I have no doubt of the intentions of the extremists in the Islamic countries that have Sharia law in place--a violent takeover is exactly what they want. _________________ Meow.
No doubt in my mind Islam is one of the most vicious and terrible ideologies in the world. I didn't need to see this videos to know that, but I may look into getting a dvd quality version I can hand out. Terrible. Just terrible.
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 2832 Location: Tacoma, WA USA
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject:
Yipes--I'm barely seeing this talked about on forums. I wonder if people are afraid of the possible repercussions....
I still find it interesting that only when I sort of hack/tweak to get the liveleak video embedded can the video be seen from LiveLeak--when you try to get it from liveleak any other way, it gives a message saying that the video has been removed. _________________ Meow.
Yipes--I'm barely seeing this talked about on forums. I wonder if people are afraid of the possible repercussions....
I still find it interesting that only when I sort of hack/tweak to get the liveleak video embedded can the video be seen from LiveLeak--when you try to get it from liveleak any other way, it gives a message saying that the video has been removed.
Yeah I have to TIP TOE around the subject on a lot of forums. I don't know why I even bother. The slightest criticism of islam makes most liberals absolutely furious. I don't know why this is, since Islam doesn't only stand to destroy everything conservatives stand for, but especially everything liberals stand for. Women's rights, gay rights, religious tolerance-- all of these values are opposed and severely threatened by islam.
The perfect irony is of course that I can criticise the hell out of Christianity any time I want. That is okay. Just not Islam.
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 2832 Location: Tacoma, WA USA
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject:
Yeah, it's pretty messed up--what you say is completely the case.
I just wonder how much of it is actually out of fear. I wonder how many people are scared that something bad will happen to them. Probably not that many directly, but I wonder how much it comes into the picture indirectly and subconsciously for people.
The thing is, I used to be one of those defending the other side--it was when it became undefendable, when I could no longer defend it anymore.
There was a period in my life where I would defend the idea of making guns illegal--but once I realized that the ONLY way that would work is through methods that would turn the country into a serious police state, house searches, etc, I could no longer defend the idea.
There was a period where I was able to defend the actions of the Palestinian muslim extremists--I thought they were living so horribly and had such little hope that that's their only way out of it--and then I started thinking about the places where people are under worse conditions who never resort to crap like that, and I started looking more and more into the whole thing. This is not to say that Israel government doesn't do some fucked up things, but it's NOTHING in contrast to what extremist Islam does. It's never in the name of killing people for not converting to Judism!
When's the last time you saw the phrase "extremist Jew" out of anyone other than a Nazi supporter? And even if you're just listening to Nazi supporters, you still don't hear it very often--they're always too busy labeling ALL Jewish people as this or that. The reason is simple--Judism doesn't push the kind of "kill people who don't convert or who don't follow the rules", they make feel poorly about people, and they may even occasionally treat people like shit out of those beliefs, but they don't generally wish them to be dead. They want the extremists to be dead, and with good reason.
I can't defend the side of the Islamic countries that have Sharia law in place. At all.
I would be speaking this harshly against Christian-based countries if there was a Christian country going around demanding people to convert or die--I'd be speaking against the ones who weren't doing that for not standing up and basically saying "Hey, you're making us look bad! Knock it off!", and I'd be especially speaking against the countries that were doing the convert-or-die thing. If the Spanish Inquisition was happening right now, I'd be saying REALLY harsh things about Christianity. _________________ Meow.
I personally think it is an association thing. Like let me put it this way:
When a lib see someone attacking Islam, they automatically think the attacker must be a Christian with a religious agenda. Not so. I am not religious. I don't attend church. There is no religious zeal or agenda behind my distaste for people perpetuating cruel and evil behavior. Look, I am going to be honest. As a dog lover, I cannot love Islam. Muhammed calls dogs dirty in the Qu'ran and essentially implies that they are vile creatures.
Don't like dogs? I say, fuck that ideology.
But if of course runs way deeper than that. They don't like anybody who isn't exactly like them. Jewish, you need to die! Gay? You need to die! Are you a woman who doesn't wear a viel or speaks your mind? You need to die! Come from the west? Well, you get the point.
The worst part is seeing them infect the netherlands. What a shame. So much of the idea of me returning to my roots and living in Norway one day. Best country in the world, and it had to be fucking ruined by muslims.
Finally found an old gem. There was a song called 'Qu'ran' which was on "My life in the bush of g hosts' by David Byrne and Brian Eno. Coincidentally coincides with this conversation. Because that song was removed from their CD due to pressure from the islamic community. Well, guess what? I just found it on MP3. And now I have the true and whole version of their record, unmollested by fascism.
Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 2832 Location: Tacoma, WA USA
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:08 am Post subject:
jq wrote:
Finally found an old gem. There was a song called 'Qu'ran' which was on "My life in the bush of g hosts' by David Byrne and Brian Eno. Coincidentally coincides with this conversation. Because that song was removed from their CD due to pressure from the islamic community. Well, guess what? I just found it on MP3. And now I have the true and whole version of their record, unmollested by fascism.
When did the album get released? _________________ Meow.
1981. They were subsequently petitioned to remove their song "Qu'ran" and they complied. Even the 25th anniversary edition, which has 7 bonus b-sides, does not feature the song. PM me though if you want it. For the record, it definitely isn't the best song on the album. Nonetheless they surrendered their artistic merit for little cause.
Anyway, the whole cartoonist thing gets even weirder. If you don't want to watch the whole, long, exasperating 6 minutes, watch the last 1 minute where the hamas children's bunny calls for assasinations and terror. Link
Check out the review I wrote for that album by the way. I make big mention of that song. Also, it may be the best review I've written for an album yet!
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